BIS fc and why
- Thread starter hucklberry
- Start date
Dorigon
Alpha and Omega
Not really sure how I feel about a strat that requires you to be graveyard camped.
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
LMAO
u can turtle in ur base for more than the last 2 mins, actually since(theoritically) ur up a cap, u control the game, u can turtle however long u want. An efficient ramp to roof turtle is impossible to backdoor, and requires the enemy to either 1. keep their fc with them and try to push with all healers, or 2. split. If they split there is no possible way, if its a close game, that the enemy team can push up ramp to roof. if they bring their fc, we are in a prime position once the enemy dps push up ramp to roof, to drop down and backdoor the efc.
Explain to me how ur teammates pet is gonna get one shot when u have 10 ppl infront of the pet and the pet is moved above gy.
Once im ontop of gy, they must send ppl to flank me because they cant get in range to do any dmg to me unless they move up ramp and come up to above gy.
MY entire strategy is not based on turtling above gy, u asked for when wild charge will take a guardian druid from the worst position as an fc to the best. Being in gy with split ressers is quite a bad place for an fc to hold his own, a warrior would be stuck within range of most enemy dps, and not many ppl to defend him. However, a guardian druid can utilize wild charge to go to an insanely safe area of the field. And since the enemy team must send flankers to kill the guardian druid, ur team is more likely to push out of gy.
clarification
Legend
So your entire strategy revolves around magically capping the first flag and turtling the rest of the game? I myself wouldn't pick an FC for the whole purpose of getting camped at my own graveyard or roof.
edit: Also the reason why roof is only a good option for the last minutes of the game is the fact that whenever someone on your team dies, they are entirely cut off from the rest of the group. Once you lost enough people you have to leave roof to regroup and the transition from roof back to the graveyard at high stacks is very messy and dangerous.
Your ten people will most likely have close to no control over the situation as they are getting contained in their own graveyard. All it takes for a pet to die is one or two seconds of focus from a single ranged DPS.
I myself would happily farm your team at the graveyard until ten stacks, then send a single hunter up to kill you. This puts you in the position to either join your team or die and once you are with your team you are just an inferior warrior.
Also, my point about having to give up either a resto druid or boomkin for a guardian FC still stands.
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Franciska
Legend
Its about as delusional as 10v10 premades happening in the F2P scene. If we make dream/ideal scenarios, we might aswell say Druids are the best FC because their movement speed exceeds all other classes while in travel and thus in theory cannot be hit by any form of damage at all, if ever.
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
Actually its a pretty viable strat, to hold them off in mid, intercept their fc, and contain them. A guardian druid picks flag and quick caps within the first 2 mins, while the opposing team can only be stuck in mid, forced to send a stealth to grab flag. We contain them in mid and double back to kill efc, at this point the guardian druid is already across field. A warrior would be unable to do this, and if ur gonna send ur boomkin or resto to pick flag ur making ur mid strat weaker, u may not even beable to hold mid in anyway.
lol a hunter pet will be sitting at 1-1.6k hp, if u can down that in the 2 seconds it takes to move up ontop of gy, id happily let u over extend and die afterwards. The wild charge is used pre-emptively, where u lost a healer in mid, or ur being pushed hard to gy, b4 u are stuck in gy u wild charge up, ur hunters will be nowhere near the place the hunter pet is going to, u will not kill it.
The resto druid on my team would also be using wild charge, he will be up there with me. he can heal the ressers and gy and me, while u cannot cc or focus him at all. If u think a hunter is gonna take down a guardian druid with 10 stacks, while hes sitting in a position that our ressed dps can cc / dps u for the few moments they are alive, and I have a resto druid healing me, aswell as the other healers who are ressing, ur wrong. u need to send atleast 2 dps to land a kill once im up there with a resto druid. now that u have 2 less dps, one being a hunter and well say the other a boomkin? we can cc ur dps upon ressing and begin to push out, its not as hard as u think if we get a full 7-8man res, with a resto druid in the back.
I agree u do lose a boomkin, but boomkins can be countered quite easily with dispels and silences, to the point where they cant make the slightest importance as a presence in mid. When Push comes to shove, guardian druids prosper. While warriors can mitigate more physical dmg, at 10 stacks, if ur stuck in gy u will die, there is nothing u can do. Now if ur gonna say well, if my team isn't getting pushed back to gy war is better. They have slightly more physical dmg reduction, I think we all know in mid strat the fc isn't getting focused most of the time, actually very little. Generally its just a 3-7 second push onto u, if they don't kill u by then, ur dps tend to drop the pushed in hunters and other dps who came in for the kill. So guardian druids actually have a noticeable amount of more hp. Which, since u are not being focused for extended periods of time, can make up for the mitigation of PHYSICAL DMG difference between wars and druids. Im not gonna sit here and do the math, to find the exact amount of dmg u need to take for it to be equal or favored in one side or the other, but don't go around thinking guardian druids are squishy at all.
I don't think u quite understand how ramp to roof works, u see the team that is turtling has nearly every advantage. The enemy fc generally has to sit in tunnel so hes no los of the fight that's occurring. and the healers must actually push outside of tunnel, so they can heal more efficiently when their dps push up. The enemy team is unable to backdoor, so they must push, if ur running ele shamans u can easily deter their push and reset the playing field. Trading blows sounds fine to me, seeing as our ressers will beable to go up tunnel and pressure healers, the enemy dps must move back to assist their healers, allowing us to push and possibly land kills on retreating dps. Meanwhile ur ressers must run thru mid again to make any sort of contribution. Since the fc must be in tunnel, we can just bait their dps, and backdoor, with out peels ur fc will be going down, especially a warrior, a monk may do better against that kind of push
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Dorigon
Alpha and Omega
And if you can't get a cap within two minutes? Any team with similar or superior skill will get their FC in to mid with the flag, unless they royally screw up. At that point your strat revolves being gy camped. Since we are doing some goofy theorycrafting, the enemy team sending up one of their ele shamans can really screw things up for your gy camped strat.
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
Just wondering why would the ele sham really screw up the postioning the guardian druid has?, to be in that position is not the main goal, but I was stating a spot that many premades can find themselves in. Guardian druid is one of the only fcs where they can actually survive out of being gy camped with flag, war is really unable to do that. U say running a guardian druid will just make u lose mid and get gy farmed? I don't quite understand that one, yeah u lose a boomkin, but a boomkin can be replaced with multiple other classes able to have roughly the same impact
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
I know u aren't really familiar with wild charge but It can be used to wild charge the shaman who is thunderstorming u, and get back to him/her. Seeing as ts is on a 35sec cd and wc is on a 15 cd
Dorigon
Alpha and Omega
This is assuming you are ready for it, and that the shaman remains sedentary. Either way, successful = still being gy camped.
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
and the fc is still alive and safe, any other fc would be royally screwed. Monk may beable to survive in gy, but at 10 stacks hell down eventually. All I gave was a situation where guardian druid is absolutely best in, and that situation is one where all other flag carriers actually fail in. Many premades are lost because their team is stuck in gy and the fc eventually is downed, with a guardian druid it requires the enemy to send atleast 2 dps out of gy,if ur saying a team cant coordinate their 8 ressers with the 2 ppl ontop of gy, so that they are able to take down the 8 players left in gy, one being an fc, then that team shouldn't win the premade anyway
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
if 10 stacks are up you wont need much more then the hunters pets to bring the guardian down when hes alone up there.
clarification
Legend
Apparently the resto druid will sit up there, too.
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
The other team will not just disengage and allow ur team to res and reform. if they do lol, u jump down and ur team goes up tunnel to ramp to roof, which is dangerous to trek there. u could also use many other points of mid field for los and make them come to u. but generally, if a team starts to retreat from gy to go up ramp, their slower dps or even a healer could be picked off
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
So they are 8 people down there and will still wipe the floor with the other team if one of the eles leaves the containment party?
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
Idk if u just don't read everything I say, or u just ignore it sometimes. The enemy team must send atleast 2 dps up to above gy to beable to land a kill on a guardian druid and resto druid up there. now with 2 less dps they generally only have 4 dps, compared to the 6 dps ressing on them. all ur teams needs is a full res and u can push out of gy. Also, once the 2 dps get ontop of gy, the guardian druid will be postioned where the dps must get in range of ur dps on gy, with no healer able to reach tho, unless he/she overextends by quite a bit, they will have to disengage and wait longer, or die. This is not a strat to win premades, its a strat to make something out of nothing, where all other fcs fail guardian druid can turn the tides. As far as complete mid strat and being focused without using wc, guardian druid is still very very formidable as I stated in a previous post. Their higher hp makes up for the diff in PHYSICAL DMG reduction, it would be diff if u were doing pve and taking dmg 90% of the time, but in mid strat ur only being focused for a few seconds at a time, any more and any fc with stacks will go down, 8% more physical dmg reduction or not lol
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
send a hpala and elemental that guardian will go down fast. and that means the team at the gy is pretty on par and should be able to last out enough time as they have the advantage of positioning themselves.